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Author Topic: Anne Knish Poetry Contest  (Read 5660 times)
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Sim
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« on: December 09, 2006, 09:11:13 PM »

Anne Knish Poetry Contest
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N. Joy Vey
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2006, 09:16:41 AM »

Sim,

Thank you for this vital post.  How happy I am to discover this important competition.  My feeble efforts might win points here.  

Any one out there remember Roland Flint's poem about the Petrified Knish?

Happy Impeachment day,  Nomi Hurwitz, occasional moderator :twisted:
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Kimon Nicolaides
Sim
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2007, 03:15:36 AM »

Here are some contest entries.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2007, 10:29:07 AM »

Quote from: "Sim"



As you read these, part of you thinks:  Are these slightly better than Ashbery, or slightly worse?

It depends on how you read them.  

If one found these poems in a magazine, and they were meant to be parody, they would be good.  If they were not meant to be parody, they would be bad.  

Since they have been entered into this contest, we must assume they are meant to be parody, and so, they are good.  

Yet within the context of 'the contest,' if they are 'good,' then they are supposed to be 'bad.'  

And so, as I read them, I think to myself, are these slightly better than Ashbery, or slightly worse?

There is an article in the January 2007 "Poetry" which makes the distinction between poetry which is essentially serious, and poetry which is not.   Hart Crane, serious.  Andrew Marvell, not serious.  In the first case, the author 'believes' what they are writing, in the second case, the author does not, but in each case, we have worthy poetry.  Authorial intent, according to the New Critics, doesn't mean a hill of beans, and therefore a good parody wins no special or extra points.  A bad poem is a bad poem, and should be of no interest to anyone.  And yet,  these 'special or extra points' are precisely what is being 'judged' in this contest.
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Sim
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2007, 07:51:20 PM »

Quote from: "Monday Love"
As you read these, part of you thinks:  Are these slightly better than Ashbery, or slightly worse?

It depends on how you read them.  

If one found these poems in a magazine, and they were meant to be parody, they would be good.  If they were not meant to be parody, they would be bad.  

Since they have been entered into this contest, we must assume they are meant to be parody, and so, they are good.  

Yet within the context of 'the contest,' if they are 'good,' then they are supposed to be 'bad.'

This up to voters to deside. In related Pavel Jerdanowitch Painting Contest the best paody was selected as the worst painting.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2007, 12:55:36 PM »

Quote from: "Sim"
Quote from: "Monday Love"
As you read these, part of you thinks:  Are these slightly better than Ashbery, or slightly worse?

It depends on how you read them.  

If one found these poems in a magazine, and they were meant to be parody, they would be good.  If they were not meant to be parody, they would be bad.  

Since they have been entered into this contest, we must assume they are meant to be parody, and so, they are good.  

Yet within the context of 'the contest,' if they are 'good,' then they are supposed to be 'bad.'

This up to voters to deside. In related Pavel Jerdanowitch Painting Contest the best paody was selected as the worst painting.


We agree, then.  I wrote, "It depends on how you read them."   You write, "This is up to the voters to decide."  Quite true.  

I wouldn't know what the 'worst painting' is.  How could we know?  The parody curve will never match 'the worst' curve.   This is a convenience of thinking that simply will not serve or fit.

Depending on how the voters judge, one might be looking for the bad done well, or the good done badly; but there will always be this tension between bad and good, between expectation and result, which always exists, no matter what kind of art we are looking at, masterpiece, or scribble.  

Because this 'tension' exists, because there is always a good pole opposing a bad pole in any human enterprise, hoaxers like Paul Jordan-Smith will come along, create a persona--he's French!  He's mad!  He's an expatriate!  He has TB! embarrass the Modernists, and then be forgotten.  

The biography of the artist, as well as the biography of the critic and the taste-maker, will forever shape art and the reputation of art and artists.  

Let us say there was a contest: who can make the worst chair?  Some voters would vote a pile of sticks as the worst chair.  But others would say, but a pile of sticks is not 'the worst chair' because it is not a chair at all.  Yet, the voters who voted for the pile of sticks will say, isn't the 'worst chair' the chair that is not a chair at all?  And the 'Pile of Sticks' school, I suspect, will always reign triumphant for its 'common sense,' its 'sense of realism' and its 'wit.'

This 'worst chair' contradiction is one which I think lies at the center of Modernism, but unfortunately for the Modernists, for them it is an unconscious contradiction, thus making them very sure of themselves in their awfulness.  

A parody project is the easiest way to achieve short-term artistic merit and the quickest way to plunder free capital which sustains it.  Woe to a society whose best art becomes the best (in all senses) parody.

The best way to escape and gain true artistic merit is, I am going to guess, through an amoral attempt at parody-within-parody-within-parody.
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Sim
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2007, 05:43:03 PM »

Quote from: "Monday Love"
Because this 'tension' exists, because there is always a good pole opposing a bad pole in any human enterprise, hoaxers like Paul Jordan-Smith will come along, create a persona--he's French!  He's mad!  He's an expatriate!  He has TB! embarrass the Modernists, and then be forgotten.

He was forgoten because the modernists had taken over the news media. Now, thanks to the internet things start to change. Se, for example:
http://www.atcards.com:80/forums/showthread.php?t=4932
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Monday Love
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2007, 11:19:32 AM »

Quote from: "Sim"
Quote from: "Monday Love"
Because this 'tension' exists, because there is always a good pole opposing a bad pole in any human enterprise, hoaxers like Paul Jordan-Smith will come along, create a persona--he's French!  He's mad!  He's an expatriate!  He has TB! embarrass the Modernists, and then be forgotten.

He was forgoten because the modernists had taken over the news media. Now, thanks to the internet things start to change. Se, for example:
http://www.atcards.com:80/forums/showthread.php?t=4932


Artist Trading Card Enthusiasts.  That's pretty wild.

At first I thought people were trading baseball cards, but instead of cards depicting baseball players and their stats, you had great artists and their stats.  But this seems to be people trading postcards of their original art?  Nice idea.  A little quixotic, but what the hell, sounds good.

Yes, I agree the internet is helping to educate people about things the status quo would have us forget.  

The art world, which involves so much more money, is even more insane than po-biz, if that's possible.

When did ideology and politics and theory and large amounts of money kidnap art?  And why?

That's the question for our era.

On another thread, Matt speaks eloquently of how madness and ego has created a hollow space inside Letters, devouring Letters from within, leaving the obfuscating theory-remains of nutty po-biz elites for confused students to chew on.

But isn't the game much more insidious when it comes to Modern Art?  Didn't the rich and well-connected buy up abstract 'art' and then build their own museums and hire their own art critics to legitimize a great deal of crap?  John Dewey was one of the first respected defenders of modern abstract art.  And then it turns out his friend owned a major gallery of the stuff.

Money literally created art fraud and made it 'real.'  That's far worse than what poets confront, because there's not that kind of money in poetry to corrupt it, even though the same kind of vampire-minds are feeding all around it.
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poetastin
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 01:05:02 PM »



"How long have you been doing triangles?"
"A long time...I was one of the first."















"I'm a master painter in the Guild, in Flanders..."

















"A magician, he said, is just an actor--an actor playing the part of a magician."
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I've inherited a tragedy...
Sim
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 04:41:36 PM »

Quote from: "Monday Love"
But isn't the game much more insidious when it comes to Modern Art?  Didn't the rich and well-connected buy up abstract 'art' and then build their own museums and hire their own art critics to legitimize a great deal of crap?  John Dewey was one of the first respected defenders of modern abstract art.  And then it turns out his friend owned a major gallery of the stuff.

A year ago an expert mistook chimp's painting for the work of a Guggenheim prise winning artist. See, for example, this blog:

http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog/2006/01/chimp-art.html

The link to "The Australian" on the top did work sometime ago but now "The Australian" removed the story from their website. I haven't seen the article in Bild Zeitung, but when I searched their website for Banghi (the name of the ape) it produced some search results, but when I tried to follow the link the page was not found. Apparently, it was also deleted.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 09:46:07 AM »

Quote from: "poetastin"


"How long have you been doing triangles?"
"A long time...I was one of the first."


I saw that film--loved it, and loved that character: triangles.  LOL













"I'm a master painter in the Guild, in Flanders..."


Never read this book.














"A magician, he said, is just an actor--an actor playing the part of a magician."


Good line.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2007, 09:54:19 AM »

Quote from: "Sim"
Quote from: "Monday Love"
But isn't the game much more insidious when it comes to Modern Art?  Didn't the rich and well-connected buy up abstract 'art' and then build their own museums and hire their own art critics to legitimize a great deal of crap?  John Dewey was one of the first respected defenders of modern abstract art.  And then it turns out his friend owned a major gallery of the stuff.

A year ago an expert mistook chimp's painting for the work of a Guggenheim prise winning artist. See, for example, this blog:

http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog/2006/01/chimp-art.html

The link to "The Australian" on the top did work sometime ago but now "The Australian" removed the story from their website. I haven't seen the article in Bild Zeitung, but when I searched their website for Banghi (the name of the ape) it produced some search results, but when I tried to follow the link the page was not found. Apparently, it was also deleted.


Thanks, Sim.   Good stuff, keep up the good work.   Some people have been trained to believe that professors and artists and poets can never be crooks and liars.   So what you are talking about does  fit into the whole Foetry enterprise.  Some people (usually with personal interest at stake) will defend 'artists' at all costs.  This is sometimes noble, since artists often do get little respect, but often ignorant.   Artists and poets--in the name of artistic freedom and artistic license, for instance-- should not get a free pass more than anyone else.
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Sim
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2007, 09:41:11 PM »

Quote from: "Monday Love"
Good stuff, keep up the good work.   Some people have been trained to believe that professors and artists and poets can never be crooks and liars.   So what you are talking about does  fit into the whole Foetry enterprise.

That was not my blog. There was a link in it to one of my quizzes, though. This is how I learned of the story. Otherwise I most certainly would not.

What I do is different from what foetry.com does. I show that there is no difference between "masterpieces" and what  anyone  can scrible. Foetry.com looks into relationships between prize-winners and prize-givers.
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