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Author Topic: Poetry Magazine: a new foet nexus  (Read 48793 times)
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leander
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« Reply #75 on: December 20, 2005, 09:00:00 AM »

Monday, it's silly to get upset at a silly joke, really a series of jokes, some funnier than others, going back to the humor issue of Poetry this past summer.  If you haven't read it, then you should.  The issue laughs at many aspects of contemporary poetry, fraudulent careerism being just one.  This site should be honored by the parody of the Douthat figure.  Still, at his best, I think Jimmy is funnier.

More seriously, I think it has been established here that the real crime of practicing foetry is not the thousand dollar prize (a sum ambitious contesters easily spend in pursuit of their prize) or the book sales (usually not much) but the academic fraud that then enables a po-biz career and generations of such careers.  I think the folks at Poetry are aware of this.  Clearly, they are aware of this site.

Leander
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bluetrain1208
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« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2006, 04:44:20 PM »

I think the "joke" is that Dean Young has written no book by that title.

And Rita Dove was never married to James Galvin.

So if I'm published in an "Iowa connected place," does that mean I can't enter the Iowa Poetry Contest?
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Monday Love
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« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2006, 07:42:25 AM »

Quote from: "bluetrain1208"
I think the "joke" is that Dean Young has written no book by that title.

And Rita Dove was never married to James Galvin.

So if I'm published in an "Iowa connected place," does that mean I can't enter the Iowa Poetry Contest?


Blue,

There's nothing more tiresome than a joke that's not funny.

If I'm ever guilty of this, let me know.

Anyway, on the full back cover of that boring rag The American Poetry Review (do we need another essay by Donald Hall on Walt  Whitman?  Essays dripping with artistic pretension about Walt Whitman?  I love WW as much as the next person but come on) is the dashing Dean Young with his now-famous smirk, and some hee hee poem which is trying to be hip and funny or something, and it advertises the forthcoming publication of his book, Embryoyo.  Is this the continuation of the "joke?"  

Dean Young's whole schtick is not funny at all.  He's about as funny as the APR.  I wonder if  he knows this.

Monday
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Virgil
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« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2006, 01:23:00 PM »

"An American Bard at Last" is a direct quote from a (I thought) famous self-review written by Walt Whitman and praising his own Leaves of Grass.

Get it? Dean Young was not simply making a joke, he was referring to something Whitman did.


Virgil (he was a poet a long time ago)
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Monday Love
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« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2006, 03:21:38 PM »

Quote from: "Virgil"
"An American Bard at Last" is a direct quote from a (I thought) famous self-review written by Walt Whitman and praising his own Leaves of Grass.

Get it? Dean Young was not simply making a joke, he was referring to something Whitman did.


Virgil (he was a poet a long time ago)


Virgil,

That's not funny.  Why is referencing Whitman funny?  If one were to ridicule Whitman, that would be funny.  Maybe not nice, but it would be funny.   But merely to reference Whitman is not funny.  Secondly, Whitman's self-review was anonymous.   I assume Dean Young's was not, since what's-his-name, the letter writer to Poetry, was complaining that Young had made a positive self-review.  So it kind of misses the point to put your name to a review, and then reference an anonymous review.  Thirdly, Dean Young is no Walt Whitman.  Ralph Waldo Whitman was a friend of mine.  I knew Ralph Waldo Whitman and Dean Young is no Ralph Waldo Whitman.

So, yea,  I "get it," Mr. Trucks.

Monday
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Virgil
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« Reply #80 on: January 13, 2006, 10:42:30 PM »

didn't say it was funny. but it was clever, canny, aware of a larger historical context without which a "poet" would be hard pressed to continue "beyond his twenty-fifth year."

we should probably all read more, complain less. I'll start now. bye bye

Virgil
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poetastin
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« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2006, 12:52:25 AM »

Too many years, trying to wrap my noggin' around the whole "intertextual" thing, then Virgil comes along, and with one clever canny post, kazaam! He grants me sight!  Dig those punk cds out of the trash, folks, because - wait! - Brian Jonestown Massacre ain't cheezy, they're historically aware! They're like, referring to other things. And do you hear that sound, because that's my pen, man, uncapping itself, getting psyched for line one of the first poem of the rest of our lives. It's called - (and get ready for the genius) - Read More, Complain Less.


What's Poetry's address? I've got a Dean Young to unseat...
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Monday Love
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« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2006, 08:08:48 AM »

Quote from: "Virgil"
didn't say it was funny. but it was clever, canny, aware of a larger historical context without which a "poet" would be hard pressed to continue "beyond his twenty-fifth year."

we should probably all read more, complain less. I'll start now. bye bye

Virgil


Virgil,

Re-reading your post, you are right.  You didn't say it was funny.  I assumed that's what you meant by 'get it?'  But now I think you are digging yourself into a deeper hole, because funny is acceptable, but now you're making an argument that Dean Young is "clever, canny, aware of a larger historical context..."?  Good grief, Charlie Brown.

The historical topic Walt Whitman, is perhaps the most trite, dull topic in all of letters.  Walt Whitman is discussed so often, and always in the same manner, with the same anecdotes, the same solemn, red-white-and-blue admiration, that here I think we need to read and complain more.

A poem is a complaint.  And so is criticism, which at its best is philosophy.  So that about covers, it Virgil.  If you disparage complaning, then what are you reading, anyway?  Cookbooks?  Car Repair?  The new book by Star Jones?  Shine: A Physical, Emotional, & Spiritual Journey To Finding Love

As for TS Eliot's advice, 'beyond the 25th year' etc: I don't think a poet was ever meant to be a bookworm.

Monday
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adamhardin
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« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2006, 11:08:11 AM »

T.S. Eliot also said that Hamlet was an aesthetic failure(T.S. Eliot's plays were real god awful by the way). Sort of like me telling Bill Parcels how to coach football.

Never was a mountain of bullshit conceived as aphorisms from writers about writing.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2006, 05:15:31 PM »

Quote from: "adamhardin"
T.S. Eliot also said that Hamlet was an aesthetic failure(T.S. Eliot's plays were real god awful by the way). Sort of like me telling Bill Parcels how to coach football.

Never was a mountain of bullshit conceived as aphorisms from writers about writing.


Adam,

TS Eliot has damaged letters perhaps more than any other writer in history.  All his declamations are wrong, and insidiously so, for they are almost right; no critic was better at hiding poison in the medicine spoon; scrutiny of his major critical points finds the thrust of them the very opposite of what they seem to be.

What an error it was, to receive his private sufferings as public wisdom!  His madness took the shape of a reasonable public official taking great pains to keep the image of the reasonable public offical intact.  It is only by detecting the seething rot within his apparent rationality that we glimpse the real Eliot, but so vast is the contradiction, so clever the rational facade, that we don't see the way into the error and the horror.  There has been no knight brave enough to slay the monster, the monster, modernism.  (which is not modern so much as mad)

We all know his odd apotheosis of minor 17th writers, his taste for Dante and some French moderns, but you are right, Adam, his inability to love so much else was odder still: Milton, the Romantics, 'Hamlet,' as you mentioned, Poe, just to name a few.  He reviled Poe and Shelley in a way that was just silly.   "Tradition" for Eliot was only a smokescreen.   I have always thought there was something cold and slimy about him, even as he mesmerized me with his snake eyes.   The brief lyric was his strength.  In short bursts, he could make poignant music.  

Monday
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indiepoet
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« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2006, 04:44:48 PM »

Monday, your T.S. Eliot reflex reminds me of that Abbot and Costello bit where every time somebody says "Niagara Falls" Costello loses it. You go off everytime you read Eliot's name, even if the comment about him is negative!  You're too easy! Indie
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borntorock
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« Reply #86 on: January 31, 2006, 01:53:36 AM »

Sometimes, I don't know why I'm not sleeping.
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alan
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WWW
« Reply #87 on: February 16, 2006, 12:32:25 PM »

Quote from: "Dan Chiasson"
. . .

I'd be very pleased if you all would read my book, then comment upon it.  Short of that, you might as well be commenting on my shoe size or deriving numerological analyses of me based on my date of birth and my height.

Please send me your mailing addresses. I can be reached at dchiasso@wellesley.edu. I'll be happy to send you a gratis copy of Natural History. Your disgust with me will then be dignified by actually having read me.

Dan Chiasson


I'm still waiting for my free copy.  Maybe he forgot, what with the holidays and all.
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"You especially have to be hurt like hell before you can write seriously. But when you get the damned hurt, use it -- don't cheat with it. -- Ernest Hemingway
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Alan Cordle
alan
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« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2006, 09:12:17 AM »

Quote from: "Dan Chiasson"

Please send me your mailing addresses. I can be reached at dchiasso@wellesley.edu. I'll be happy to send you a gratis copy of Natural History. Your disgust with me will then be dignified by actually having read me.

Dan Chiasson


Where's my book, Dan?  Meanwhile, just got a message about your review of Donald Hall's selected in the NYT Book Review.  Anyone want to talk about it?
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"You especially have to be hurt like hell before you can write seriously. But when you get the damned hurt, use it -- don't cheat with it. -- Ernest Hemingway
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Alan Cordle
duckyd
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Dan
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2006, 11:54:23 AM »

I have read you dan and I don't like your poems.  But so what.  A lot of people don't like my poems.  A lot of people do like my poems.  Obviously people like your poems too.  I thought the Guardian review of your book pretty much hit my opinion and is a good explanation of my feelings.  I like some of your criticism.  Some of your reviews sound quite pretentious and flashy.  The one last April for poetry month at Poetry Daily I thought was a bit much.  You've been sounding more humble lately--fair enough on the Donald Hall review.   In a way none of this matters.  We all find our own way.
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