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Author Topic: Poetry Magazine: a new foet nexus  (Read 49856 times)
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Monday Love
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« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2005, 12:59:26 PM »

I welcome Jimmy’s role as a self-appointed ambassador of the foets; it’s great fun and it produces copy, but when J. claims to know what every last poet is thinking (“uh, no one cares about you guys now”) it gets a little weird; let’s find that big fat grain of salt.
   
The whole issue of “trust” which Jimmy keeps making: can we “trust” alan, et al. This distracts from the larger issue: Which is better?  Foetry.com, or no Foetry.com?  This is the larger issue, and the answer is obvious.  No one could possibly argue that some entity resembling Foetry.com should not exist.  Now, the moment an entity like Foetry.com comes into existence, the complaint will naturally arise, “Who are these guys?  How can we trust them?”   This complaint is nothing more than an indication that Foetry.com is doing its job.  So, either we have nothing like Foetry.com, or we have Foetry.com and the accompanying scream, “Who are these guys?  How can we trust them?”  Let the people have Foetry.com.  Let the people sift the salt grains and decide for themselves who they want to “trust.”  
   
    Aside from very broad satire, the slings and arrows of Foetry.com have all been aimed at the public business of poetry, the public making of poetry reputation, the use of poetry and the public trust, and related aesthetic questions, and every public charge made or question asked on Foetry.com has always been open to rebuttal, and no germane reply has ever been suppressed.  To yell in the face of this, “Who are these guys?  How can we trust them?” is natural, as natural as salt.
   
It is common, all too common, the whole business, and Jimmy knows this well.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2005, 01:15:53 PM »

Jimmy,

I love your 5 color scale!  

We should use that here.

What is a parent supposed to "sound like?"  I'm curious.  A rogue can have kids too, you know.

What if Foetry.com put up a softball team and played a team of foets.  Would that help to soften our image?

Monday
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Monday Love
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« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2005, 02:27:13 PM »

The new ‘Poetry’ Dec 2005 is out.  I didn’t like any of the poetry, but then poetry is so 5 minutes ago.  Those who are impressed with poetry and with poets are so 5 minutes ago.  Wit is now in.  Until recently, poetic genius has concerned itself with the ass-kissing blurb.  But times are changing and “Poetry” is changing with it.  Remember David Orr, who had the balls to bash Jorie Graham in the Times, even as she was being tarred and feathered on Foetry.com?  Orr reviews eight new Library of America poets from the 19th and 20th centuries and he isn’t nice to any of them.  But he’s fair.  Imagine that.  Not nice, but fair.  Last month Dan C. showed he was ready to rumble in “Poety’s” new spirit but he couldn’t quite pull it off—a good book, Donald Revell’s, for instance, had  no flaws Chiasson could share with his readers. Memo for all reviewers, especially suck-ups:  What didn’t you like about the book?  Give the impression you read the book with care by saying bad things about a good book whenever you can, and, bad, or good, quote as liberally as possible from the text, so readers can share in the judgment.  Orr has read this memo.  He also does not worship Modernism, which gives him a great advantage in the Wit department right from the start. I do like where “Poetry” is going with its prose.
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jimmy
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« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2005, 02:39:21 PM »

I don't want to soften foetry dot com or its posters.  But who is watching the Watchmen? The work that is being done here is being *marginalized* because of a lack of focus and a sustained lack of credibility. When you are on the right track you can be mighty. I guess the news cycle problem effects you guys too: when there's nothing much going on here you still are! What are you going to talk about?

This site is only as good or as trustworthy as you allow it to be. And if the hottest examples of current foetic activities you can find are Dan Chaisson's reviews in POETRY magazine, well, let me know if those really set the world on fire. I've defended lots of people here, and in some cases I wish I hadn't. Most consumers aren't interested in baseless conjecture: they want facts. The final seasons of the X-Files weren't successful because answers were kept being promised. Just hang in there! Trust us! There were no answers. It died in a whimper. The Truth is Still Out There.  

xxxjimmy
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jimmy
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« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2005, 02:53:30 PM »

PS: I do like Monday Love's self-appointed role as a "hater." The only aesthetic that he seems to hold dear is that every poet ought to come down a notch (to his level?) I hear the kind of "Har" that people who like watching Nascar for the crashes must "har".

Sven Birkerts crapped in Jorie's bed (in the New York Times) long before Gregory Orr had "the guts" to do the same exact thing. She actually wandered around the Square asking everyone she met if they'd seen it, wasn't it awful, etc. She's probably used to it now--I sense at least some chauvanism: until now male professors could fuck or annoint who they wanted. Why is it front page news when she does it?

Cheer for the failure of poets and hope that they're as corrupt as you imagine! Even though you're batting .100 you are the batting champs of your own little fantasy league!

xxxjimmy
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alan
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« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2005, 03:30:21 PM »

Quote from: "jimmy"
I don't want to soften foetry dot com or its posters.  But who is watching the Watchmen? The work that is being done here is being *marginalized* because of a lack of focus and a sustained lack of credibility. When you are on the right track you can be mighty. I guess the news cycle problem effects you guys too: when there's nothing much going on here you still are! What are you going to talk about?


I gave you something pretty good yesterday and then took it away -- I don't do that very often.  Were you watching?

I've got some good stuff from FOIA requests on Colorado and Boise, but it's fun to dole the details as needed.  I'm not ready to show all my cards yet.

The Three Candles stuff seems newsworthy to me in the meantime.  It shows I make mistakes and own up to them and also that the contest admins. are still making mistakes too.  Discuss. Smiley
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"You especially have to be hurt like hell before you can write seriously. But when you get the damned hurt, use it -- don't cheat with it.” -- Ernest Hemingway
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Alan Cordle
jimmy
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« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2005, 04:23:22 PM »

Sitting on relevant consumer information like the great and powerful Oz: is that how you're going to make people trust you? Should people trust you, Alan?

xxxjimmy
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Monday Love
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« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2005, 05:19:22 PM »

Quote from: "jimmy"
I don't want to soften foetry dot com or its posters.  But who is watching the Watchmen? The work that is being done here is being *marginalized* because of a lack of focus and a sustained lack of credibility. When you are on the right track you can be mighty. I guess the news cycle problem effects you guys too: when there's nothing much going on here you still are! What are you going to talk about?

This site is only as good or as trustworthy as you allow it to be. And if the hottest examples of current foetic activities you can find are Dan Chaisson's reviews in POETRY magazine, well, let me know if those really set the world on fire. I've defended lots of people here, and in some cases I wish I hadn't. Most consumers aren't interested in baseless conjecture: they want facts. The final seasons of the X-Files weren't successful because answers were kept being promised. Just hang in there! Trust us! There were no answers. It died in a whimper. The Truth is Still Out There.  

xxxjimmy


Jimmy,

We're not a TV show.   This is real life.   Foetry.com has accomplished a lot in the last couple of years.  What?  You want a thrill every night from us?

Remember, this is poetry, we're talking about.  What's more exciting than us in poetry right now?  The latest scholarly article in APR?  zzzzzzz. Come on.  We're a thrill-a-minute compared to what's going on in poetry today.

You are watching us, and doing a wonderful and funny job of it.   If more foets were like you, and not hiding in fear, we'd all be having a lot more fun.

Luv ya,

Monday
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Monday Love
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« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2005, 05:32:02 PM »

Quote from: "jimmy"
PS: I do like Monday Love's self-appointed role as a "hater." The only aesthetic that he seems to hold dear is that every poet ought to come down a notch (to his level?) I hear the kind of "Har" that people who like watching Nascar for the crashes must "har".

Sven Birkerts crapped in Jorie's bed (in the New York Times) long before Gregory Orr had "the guts" to do the same exact thing. She actually wandered around the Square asking everyone she met if they'd seen it, wasn't it awful, etc. She's probably used to it now--I sense at least some chauvanism: until now male professors could fuck or annoint who they wanted. Why is it front page news when she does it?

Cheer for the failure of poets and hope that they're as corrupt as you imagine! Even though you're batting .100 you are the batting champs of your own little fantasy league!

xxxjimmy


Jimmy,

Sven Birkerts is a pants-wetter.  No one takes him seriously.  Orr's piece was much better.  At least she was out and about after reading the Birkerts article, "wandering the Square," as you put it.  No one saw her for weeks after Orr's article came out.  

When you say male profs could fuck and annoint "until now," do you mean "pre-Foetry?"   Are you paying Foetry.com a compliment?  

Monday
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jimmy
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« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2005, 06:34:19 PM »

A "pants-wetter?" Is that a literary designation? Would you be brave enough to call Sven a "pants-wetter" if you weren't anonymous? You probably want to appear in AGNI, you want to dance with the stars.  Isn't *that* why you're anonymous, Mon?

And doesn't Jorie live in France? So maybe she wasn't seen for weeks because she was writing poems in the European sun?

Why do you guys run from **questions**? Questions like this:

Why is Alan above the skepticism that is cast upon anyone else on this site?

What makes his mission here altruistic and just?

And why does Monday Love continue to hide behind anonymity to make cowardly attacks?

You guys wouldn't even pass foetry.com's own lame standards of ethics and conspiracy. Why should any poet continue to fear you is beyond me. This place has seen its proudest days. What you are now is simply sad shadow.

xxxjimmy
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N. Joy Vey
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« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2005, 06:41:23 PM »

Dear jimmy,

I am one of the anonymous posters, and I usually consider myself a former-poet.

This site has awakened me to certain ugly realities, but I am hopelessly idealistic.  I am grateful for the news and views it provides.  And of course, much of the wit is over my head...

I am not technologically comfortable, and sometimes it's a struggle to achieve successful italics.  

Enough of my corny mishuga'as...

dear jimmy, i do appreciate your passion!          N.
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Kimon Nicolaides
jimmy
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« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2005, 06:56:12 PM »

N. Joy--

As a consumer, how confident are you in the news you receive here to be fair and accurate?  What assurances do you have that it is? Under what cirumstances are corrections made to false accusations? What is the ombudsmen policy here? Is the policy of foetry.com: "All the News That's Fit to Hint?" Why are flimsy cases tossed in with the more substantial ones? What is the editorial policy of this board? How much of being labeled as "foetic" is simply having crossed Alan Cordle? Aren't these good questions, too?

xxxjimmy
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Monday Love
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« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2005, 08:04:08 PM »

Quote from: "jimmy"
A "pants-wetter?" Is that a literary designation?


No, Jimmy, I mean Sven Berkerts is literally a pants-wetter.  Yes, it's a literary designation--the over-fastidious, pedantic, gee-whiz of the bookworm.  Hasn't he set the record for most remainder copies of hardcover books of criticism?

Quote from: "jimmy"
Would you be brave enough to call Sven a "pants-wetter" if you weren't anonymous? You probably want to appear in AGNI, you want to dance with the stars.  Isn't *that* why you're anonymous, Mon?


Brave enough?  I'm as brave as the next person, but it would be foolhardy to call Sven a "pants-wetter" to his face.  He might beat me up!And not publish me in AGNI!  Don't you see?  That's the beauty of anonymity!  Sven's intimidating qualites are neutralized.  Sven's fists can do no damage.  The dream of AGNI publication is still within my reach.    But isn't AGNI merely a school magazine, funded by college alumni?  Is that "dancing with the stars?"  Letters today exists in such a decentralized fashion, spread out over thousands of colleges and little magazines that "stars" really don't exist.  I'm anonymous for reasons not even known to myself.  There is a rationale for anonymity, but I'll confess to not knowing why I am anonymous.



Quote from: "jimmy"
And doesn't Jorie live in France? So maybe she wasn't seen for weeks because she was writing poems in the European sun?


I don't know where she was, Jimmy.  I'm just speculating.  Did you really see her "wandering the Square" after she read the Birkerts article? LOL

Quote from: "jimmy"
Why do you guys run from **questions**? Questions like this:

Why is Alan above the skepticism that is cast upon anyone else on this site?

What makes his mission here altruistic and just?

And why does Monday Love continue to hide behind anonymity to make cowardly attacks?

You guys wouldn't even pass foetry.com's own lame standards of ethics and conspiracy. Why should any poet continue to fear you is beyond me. This place has seen its proudest days. What you are now is simply sad shadow.

xxxjimmy


Jimmy, why don't you ask some serious questions.  These questions of yours are like asking the question, "Why don't you admit that you're wrong and I'm right?"   Alan is not "above" any "skepticism."  Skepticism is encouraged here.  

You are correct about one thing, however.  Personally, I am shadowy and sad.


Monday
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jimmy
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« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2005, 08:27:44 PM »

Is the non-response of "ask some other questions" really the response foetry.com would accept from anybody else? Nope. That you guys want to operate under one set of rules and everyone else has to operate under the unfliching Sauron eye of your disappointments, cowardices--woosh! That ain't a working formula, guys. That *you* live in fear of Sven's fists, now that's *gutless*.

Some might call you an over-fastidious, pedantic gee-whizzer. Don't like the smell of your own stink, ML?

Why should anyone come here and answer anything when you (even beneath the veil of anonymity) cannot summon the personal courage to answer directly questions about your motives and means?

Dodge questions as much as you want.  My Sauron eye is polished and you guys cannot claim both to be on a divine mission and act without divinity. If the truth is too high a standard for foetry.com to adhere to, then what possible benefit can this place supply to consumers? Isn't this place about *consumers*?

xxxjimmy
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Monday Love
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« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2005, 02:43:07 PM »

Quote from: "jimmy"
Is the non-response of "ask some other questions" really the response foetry.com would accept from anybody else? Nope. That you guys want to operate under one set of rules and everyone else has to operate under the unfliching Sauron eye of your disappointments, cowardices--woosh! That ain't a working formula, guys. That *you* live in fear of Sven's fists, now that's *gutless*.

Some might call you an over-fastidious, pedantic gee-whizzer. Don't like the smell of your own stink, ML?

Why should anyone come here and answer anything when you (even beneath the veil of anonymity) cannot summon the personal courage to answer directly questions about your motives and means?

Dodge questions as much as you want.  My Sauron eye is polished and you guys cannot claim both to be on a divine mission and act without divinity. If the truth is too high a standard for foetry.com to adhere to, then what possible benefit can this place supply to consumers? Isn't this place about *consumers*?

xxxjimmy


You’re right, Jimmy, I should answer all those questions.  What were they again?  Oh, yea, I think they boil down to: what is Alan’s motive, and why should anyone trust Alan, or me, or anyone, etc?  (Film noir tough guy voice)  Just answer da question, Mr. Love!
OK, D.A. Behrle.   Here ya go.  Foetry.com is basically a consumer site, and those who come to this site can make up their own minds on who they want to trust.  Our general motive is to make poetry better through examination of the poetry priesthood and how it interacts with poetry business.  I think you have to keep in mind, also, that you are Foetry.com as much as I am.  Anybody who posts here contributes to what people ultimately take from it.  As Madge used to say, “You’re soaking in it.”  You are complaining about a TV program--and the TV program is: Jim Berhle.
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