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Author Topic: Richard Howard gets the boot from The Paris Review  (Read 37903 times)
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Monday Love
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2005, 08:01:01 AM »

"In fact, I'd rather trust a poet with the skill and erudition of Howard."  --Blake

You sound like Goneril and Regan flattering Lear.
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wmblake
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2005, 10:45:51 AM »

So I respect the man's work and his taste...if that's worth your insults, well alright.

I'm sure you flatter yourself with grand self-righteousness.  And your aesthetics of petty exclusion are hardly to be admired.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2005, 01:01:30 PM »

Quote from: "wmblake"
So I respect the man's work and his taste...if that's worth your insults, well alright.

I'm sure you flatter yourself with grand self-righteousness.  And your aesthetics of petty exclusion are hardly to be admired.


Blake,

I see.  Your Richard-Howard-Rewards-Kiss-Ass-Student Aesthetic is something we should all strive for.  If you don't bow and scrape before Richard Howard and his modus operandi of flattery, you are guilty of the "aesthetics of petty exclusion."  That's a good one!  I'll have to remember that.

Cheers,

Monday
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alan
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2005, 03:02:37 PM »

Monday,

You'll remember from Foetry v.1 the famous words of the not-so-famous Laura Mullen, who claimed her "wins" were because of "aesthetic affiliations."  So if Wm. wants to believe that Howard has taste, so be it.  We all know the truth.  His taste is only for his own students.  He's an arrogant old man who likely doesn't read the work of anyone who has not kissed his ass.  I'd be embarrassed to be solicited by him.

Cheers,
Al
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Alan Cordle
alan
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2005, 03:10:19 PM »

And Wm.,

Why is it a stretch to believe Howard was removed from the PR at least in part because of this site?  That's why Graham says she's not judging any more.  That's why Ramke and Cairns stepped down as series editors.  Do you think Zoo Press will still have Howard as judge of the Paris Review Prize for Poetry?  I doubt it.

And mark my words, there will be some additional resignations soon, directly because of the foe-fighters on this site.  It may look like it's the editors' own decisions: tired of running the series, moving on to other things, etc. etc., but we'll know the truth.  They got caught.

Best,
Al
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Alan Cordle
britwrit
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« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2005, 05:58:02 AM »

To be honest, I think Howard primarily got the boot because of the general housecleaning by Gourevitch, not because of Foetry. Still, his rep for favoring his students' work probably didn't help at all. And by dumping most, if not all, of the work he selected, that pretty much shows what the new regime thought about his talents...

Anyway, anyone know anything the new editors? And anyone think this "partnership" deal will work?
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Wilson
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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2005, 10:09:36 AM »

Quote from: "wmblake"
Well, I guess that leaves both Whitman (a self-publisher) and Dickinson (a non-publisher) out of your game.


Both are being published more than you and I.
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Wils
Wilson
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« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2005, 10:19:46 AM »

Quote from: "britwrit"

Anyway, anyone know anything the new editors? And anyone think this "partnership" deal will work?


I think the two will work well together.  O'Rourke's own work is full of alliteration and quirkiness and a level of in-your-faceness.  I'll be curious to see what catches her eye, but I think she's the one to watch.  Simic may already be too set in his ways, but O'Rourke is an exciting choice.
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Wils
adamhardin
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« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2005, 01:52:19 PM »

The anger against this site is not related to guilt due to lying or guilt due to stealing, but rather guilt due to getting caught. It is this getting caught part which gets the foets riled up more than anything else.
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wmblake
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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2005, 09:19:44 AM »

Getting caught?  Guilt?

How is that pertinent to this thread, which is a discussion of The Paris Review.? So now RH "left" out of guilt?  Now that's a pathological misreading of the facts at hand.

Thank you, Britwrit, for agreeing that this was more a matter of "house cleaning."  

Please note, y'all, that it is common for magazines, when a new editorial staff takes over, to kill the pieces in the pipeline from a previous editor.  While it may seem rude, disdainful of the previous regime, it's really a matter of common course and needn't be read--in this particular case--as an indictment of Howard.  I know many of you WISH that would be the reason.

Truth is, it sounds as if RH's mistake was accepting too much from too wide a variety of poets (again--look at the Table of Contents--these were not all Columbia students, people)...so much that the new staff would have had to wait too long to see any of their own acceptances in print.

To answer britwrit's good question: I think the new editors will make an interesting pair, representing as they do a kind of old and a kind of new.  And their idea about extended poetry "folios" seems promising, though that does suggest that the focus of TPR will now be leaning more toward prose....or at least that there will be a much larger proportion of prose than poetry in the future.

____

He formed also harsh instruments of sound
To grate the soul into destruction or to inflame with fury
The spirits of life to pervert all the faculties of sense...
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Wilson
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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2005, 12:15:47 PM »

Quote from: "wmblake"
Getting caught?  Guilt?

How is that pertinent to this thread, which is a discussion of The Paris Review.?


I've never purchased a copy of TPR since I found Howard to be nepotistic the few times I cracked a copy in the bookstore.  Now that Howard's gone, I'll be curious again.  

I've said this many times: don't buy books or mags from publishers that support unfair practices.
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Wils
mcat
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« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2005, 04:58:35 PM »

http://www.observer.com/media_newsstory2.asp
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charles329
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2006, 02:27:58 AM »

You guys are deliciously intelligent; did you know that? I really enjoy your minds. I'm a little late getting on to this thread, but I'm late (too little, too late) with most things in life. I just wanted to let you know that I've been reading poetry for 35 five years, damn, all of it from around the world, and I never liked Richard Howard's poetry very much. It ranks quite low in the whole frame of things. I don't think his poetry will last long beyond his passing (bless him. . .'cause he's a real guy and all). So how will he be remembered? You tell me.
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Monday Love
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« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2006, 11:12:38 AM »

Quote from: "charles329"
You guys are deliciously intelligent; did you know that? I really enjoy your minds. I'm a little late getting on to this thread, but I'm late (too little, too late) with most things in life. I just wanted to let you know that I've been reading poetry for 35 five years, damn, all of it from around the world, and I never liked Richard Howard's poetry very much. It ranks quite low in the whole frame of things. I don't think his poetry will last long beyond his passing (bless him. . .'cause he's a real guy and all). So how will he be remembered? You tell me.


Charles,

We season our discourse with honesty and resist the fruits of 'suck-up;' thus we appear more intelligent than we really are.  If, intellectually, we are woefully deficient, honesty serves us well.  Why else would we dare to anger a genius like Mr. Howard?

I find his poetry overly fussy and self-consciously high-brow.  I very much like that poem of his which ends: "...asks us to yield./And we yield."

It is never too late.  Not even for Mr. Howard.  

Welcome.

I predict a renaissance in poetry.  Who can blame a Howard, who did have poetic talent in his youth, for basking his whole life in the glow of "Poet"?  "A Poet" today, however, due to moral and material squandering, is now looked upon--by everyone--with suspicion.  This is good, for the impetus will no longer be to bask in, put to prove, again and again, the worthiness of the title.

Monday
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TripivReturns
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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2006, 12:28:47 PM »

I've always liked Howard's much anthologized response to Browning, "To Nikolas Mardruz.."  

Regarding his leaving TPR--it's about time, and I don't mean that in any belittling way.  Simply put, he had the editorial reins for too long.  Somebody once described him to me as a kid in a pastry shop.  It's not that he took lots of his students' poems, he took lots of everyone's poems from all corners of the planet.  I heard the average wait to get in once accepted could range up to 3 and 4 years!

It's healthy that he goes (also he must be 80 by now, so he's probably slowed a tad).  

Having said all that, Howard deserves to be celebrated at the very least for his tremendous contribution to literature by way of his translations.  I can think of no single living writer who matches his output in quantity and quality.  He'll go down as a bit of a legend whether his poems are remembered or not.
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